Friday, October 1, 2010

News and Notes: Friday Edition

Above, Cornell's fan base, the Newman Nation. Below, some news and notes for Friday...
  • Even with nationally ranked and league champion hockey and wrestling teams next door, for the third consecutive season, Cornell basketball has led the Ivy League in home attendance. Below are last season's attendance figures for conference play.
Away Avg
Neutral Avg
Total attend Avg
Brown 7-9900 1414
7-14256 2037
0-0 0
14-24156 1725
Columbia 7-12313 1759
7-15270 2181
0-0 0
14-27583 1970
Cornell 7-29691 4242
7-20510 2930
0-0 0
14-50201 3586
Dartmouth 7-5332 762
7-13413 1916
0-0 0
14-18745 1339
Harvard 7-13609 1944
7-19366 2767
0-0 0
14-32975 2355
Penn 7-24796 3542
7-13546 1935
0-0 0
14-38342 2739
Princeton 7-21817 3117
7-17328 2475
0-0 0
14-39145 2796
Yale 7-12908 1844
7-16677 2382
0-0 0
14-29585 2113
Totals 56-130366 2328
56-130366 2328
0-0 0
112-260732 2328
  • Cornell is looking finish among the nation's top five 3-point shooting teams for the fourth consecutive season. After finishing both the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons ranked third in the country in 3-point shooting accuracy, Cornell concluded the 2009-2010 season ranked first in the nation.


Anonymous said...

Those attendance numbers are deceiving though because Cornell has a much bigger arena than most of those other teams. Harvard, for example, sold out almost all their home Ivy games but only have 2000 or so seats in their arena.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

These numbers are not deceiving at all.

Harvard averaged just 1,944 per game, yet the gym (Lavietes) had the capacity to hold 2,195.

In other words, despite a tiny gym, Harvard still could not fill it.

Columbia and Yale attracted nearly as many fans as Harvard.

Anonymous said...

1944 out of 2195 isn't bad

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

In terms of percentage of seats filled, it is pretty good.

But the fact remains, a 1,944 average is nothing to be proud of when your having your best season in school history, you have an NBA guy on the roster (Lin), and your athletics department is marketing the team 24/7.

If Harvard sold out every game, then at least they could say they filled the place to its capacity and could do no better.

The reality is that Harvard was ranked just 4th in the League's attendance, and only 100 persons higher than a non-competitive Yale team.

Anonymous said...

When we weren't competing for Ivy League titles just 4 or 5 years back, our attendance was less than 60% of capacity so let's take it easy on Harvard.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

During 2006-2007, Cornell had very little media exposure. Cornell also had no NBA prospects and very little marketing support from the Athletics Department. Nevertheless, Cornell pulled in an average of 1,278.

Harvard '09-'10 did better than Cornell '07, but again, the Crimson were a marketing machine, had Jeremy Lin all over the media, and were hyped to be in contention for an Ivy title. Harvard also had its best season in school history.

The result?

Harvard averaged 700 more than a Cornell '07 team which was average-- 9-5 in the Ivy and just 16-12 overall (pretty much a .500 team).

During '05-'06, Cornell was just 13-15 overall and 8-6 in the Ivy. Cornell averaged 1,890 per game, just short of Harvard's 1,944 during the Crimson's 2010 season.

Anonymous said...

Harvard students dont care about sports, thats why their rink is called Lynah East

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Some Harvard students care and little Lavietes will fill up if the teams wins a title.

It ain't all that hard to sell 2,000 tickets.

Anonymous said...

In conclusion, Harvard attendance increased significantly this year FOR HARVARD which showed increased student interest and they filled their gym to near capacity, albeit their small gym. Honestly I'm Cornellian but I do not understand the point of this exchange.

(I don't believe that the #s are "deceiving" though; I think Cornellians just kept packing Newman for just about every opponent save the mid-afternoon Div IIIs. While Harvard might be hobbled by a tiny gym, Cornell's gym is considerably smaller than Penn and Princeton's yet we still pulled in more people; it's not just about gym size ... perhaps we should just say that the #s might not accurately reflect Harvard, and leave it at that, rather than insinuating that it's Cornell's #s that are misleading.)

Anonymous said...

Undergraduate enrollment:

Cornell: 13,931
Harvard: 6,655

by attendance compared to undergraduates (yes I know the gyms are not filled by undergrads):

Cornell: 30.4%
Harvard: 29.2%

Not too much of a difference.

Anonymous said...

Before taking any of this too literally, 1) schools estimate their attendance so all numbers should be taken with a smirk and 2) you should really look at when teams played their games and who they played.

Right off the top of my head, I can tell you that no Harvard students were likely to be at a home game on the Friday night before H-Y football in New Haven. Same goes for school breaks.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

School breaks/vacations impact all of the Ivy schools, not just Harvard... and Cornell basketball has by far the most competition for spectators within its own school than the rest of the Ivy basketball teams.

For example, Cornell basketball must compete for spectators with Cornell hockey and wrestling (both nationally ranked teams) which draw substantial numbers of spectators.

As for the point about undergrad enrollments, we don't know how many students attend these games from any of the Ivies.

We don't know if the spectators are employees, alumni, undergrads, grad students, local/townies, family, friends, or just interested persons.

What we do know is that Harvard draws under 2,000 per game and Cornell brought in about 4,000.

Penn's basketball numbers were solid, but Penn has no hockey team and does not have the fan draw for wrestling like Cornell does.

Princeton gets a lot of support from its local/townies and Princeton.

Columbia probably gets the most alumni spectators since most of Columbia's alumni live in the New York metro area.

Anonymous said...

pretty impressive that Penn averaged 3542 despite being as bad as they were and that they averaged higher attendance by 400 than Princeton despite Princeton's good year
Harvard's attendance was really good because 2k is about all they can have

Anonymous said...

Well done, you proved his point.

Cornell drew twice the number that Harvard did and has twice the enrollment.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Point proven? Not quite.

Attendance is not dictated by just student body size.

Harvard is in Boston, one of the nation's half dozen largest cities with more than a million people in the metro area.

Yet, Harvard still drew just 2,000.

Ithaca has a population under 100,000, including students.

Cornell drew 4,000.

Anonymous said...

Can't Newman only handle about 4,000? If both the gyms here and there are pretty much filling up with as much as they can handle, can your little argument even be resolved? If the gyms were bigger, the proportion of undergrads known, and the # of undergrads attending competing events were known, you might resolve your issue, but these things aren't known, so this argument has no answer.

Also, Ithaca's population is 50% students, so the whole making things a proportion of student population doesn't work. There are no alumni etc around to contribute to our attendance.

Anonymous said...

Just read your comment that the population is 100,000, which made my 50% student thing sound odd to even myself, but it is what I was told in demography class.

Then again, with 14,000 undergraduates, 6500 grad students, 6,000 at Ithaca College, and probably thousands more at TC3, one third of the population at least must be students.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

First off, Cornell is located in two distinct municipalities:

The City of Ithaca

The Town of Ithaca

(and the Village of Cayuga Heights)

The total Ithaca area (city and town) population with students is over 100,000.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Newman Arena can hold 4,750 and has held more for certain games.

Anonymous said...

Boston area is home to approximately 35 colleges and universities; and four major professional sports teams. That tends to segment the sports viewing population.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

And how many of those colleges have Division I basketball teams?

Are you suggesting that Harvard can't be expected to sell 2,100 seats despite its Boston location?

Granted Penn has no hockey team, but the Quakers are in a major city of Philadelphia, competing with all of the Big 5 schools for fans and Penn is still able to average better than 3,000, even when the team wins just 5 games and have a terrible year.

In a 2,100 seat gym, Harvard should sell out every game.

In fact, there are high schools in the Boston area that probably attracted larger crowds.

Anonymous said...

It is useless to argue with you. If Amaker continues to improve the basketball program, Harvard will build a bigger gym, and then we don't have to have this discussion. The Harvard attendance grew last year as the season progressed. They could have sold 8,000 tickets for the Harvard/Cornell game if they'd had the seats. That was an amazing event.

Anonymous said...

The bottom line is that Harvard had good attendance every game was basically a sellout but you are dreaming if you think they will build a bigger gym. But this is a stupid argument to begin with because who cares who had the most attendance, the bottom line is winning, nothing else matters

Anonymous said...

Face it, Harvard sucks.