Sunday, March 6, 2011

News and Notes: Sunday/Weekend Recap Edition

Below, some news and notes for Sunday...
  • In the coming days and weeks, stay tuned with The Cornell Basketball Blog for SlopeTV's 2010-2011 season highlights video package along with some other videos and doses of breaking news regarding the program's exciting plans for the summer and for next season.
  • Coach Bill Courtney and his staff will host the Cornell Basketball Prospect Camp from June 25-26, 2011. This camp is intended for boys in grades 9-12 and is recommended for high school players who are serious about playing collegiate basketball. The camp will provide high level instruction by Cornell coaches and features competitive games. The camp also offers invaluable exposure to the University and the Cornell coaching staff for high school players interested in potentially playing Division I basketball at Cornell. At a date later in the summer, Cornell Basketball will also offer a one-day clinic for Division I prospects. Many of Cornell's top recruiting targets are expected to attend.


  • Speaking of prospects and recruits, now for some news and notes on Cornell's incoming recruits: Above, Devin Cherry (Meridian HS) Meridian, MS, 6-3, G (No. 5 above in the photos and video) and his Wildcats captured the Mississippi 6A State Championship on Saturday night in Jackson, MS. Cherry finished with 15 points (including three 3-pointers). See the recaps in the Clarion Ledger, the Meridian Star and added coverage in the Meridian Star. Prior to the game, Cherry was presented with the State's Scholar Athlete Award. Ned Tomic (North Royalton HS) North Royalton, OH, 6-7, F, scored 17 points in a 46-41 win over Midview per the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Shonn Miller (St. Ignatius HS) Cleveland, OH, 6-6, F, got his postseason started with a win. The Cleveland Plain Dealer writes, "St. Ignatius 64, Shaker Heights 56: Four players scored in double figures for the Wildcats in an anticipated Division I sectional final at Solon featuring Top 25 teams. Shonn Miller led St. Ignatius, ranked 18th in The Plain Dealer's final Top 25 poll, with 15 points... Miller was sidelined with a foot injury when Shaker defeated the Wildcats, 72-56, on Dec. 21...St. Ignatius (13-9 and seeded fifth) jumped out to a 28-16 halftime lead...Shaker Heights, ranked eighth by The Plain Dealer and the fourth seed, ends its season at 14-8." Below, Dave Lamore (Dexter HS) Dexter, MI, 6-10, C, talks to Heritage Newspapers about his 16 point performance on Thursday night against Chelsea.


  • Louis Dale ('10) scored 20 points, dished 5 assists and grabbed 2 rebounds on a 7/8 shooting performance as his Goettingen club defeated the Brose Baskets, 82-69, on March 5 in Germany's Bundesliga action. Meanwhile, Jeff Foote ('10) has scored in double figures in 3 of his last 4 games for Melilla in Spain's 2nd Division. See more alumni updates further down below.
  • Because Ithaca College earned a bid to the Division III NCAA Tournament, The Ithacan's Alex Holt writes, "we’ve got basketball bragging rights over Cornell."
  • The Ithaca Journal was a bit late posting the online scouting report for the Yale game on Saturday, but we will post it in a condensed format regardless:

Ithaca Journal: Scouting Yale Not including Friday's games* Coach: James Jones (12th season)* Last time out: Yale completed a weekend sweep at home with a 70-69 nail-biter over Harvard last Saturday. Jeremiah Kreisberg's layup with 41 seconds left was the final bucket. Yale played at Columbia on Friday night.* Previous meeting: Yale rallied from 10 points down with 2 minutes left to beat Cornell, 71-70, on Feb. 4.* Probable starters: Jeremiah Kreisberg (6-9, 235, Fr., F), Greg Mangano (6-10, 240, Jr., C), Reggie Willhite (6-4, 195, Jr., F), Austin Morgan (5-11, 185, Soph., G), Porter Braswell (6-1, 195, Sr., G).* Key reserves: Rhett Anderson (6-8, 230, Jr., F), Raffi Mantilla (6-3, 190, Sr., G), Sam Martin (6-3, 195, Soph., G), Michael Grace (6-0, 180, Soph., G).* Statistically: Yale's five league losses have come by margins of 8, 4, 3, 7 and 2 points. Its seven wins came by margins of 5, 8, 1, 5, 9, 4 and 1 points. ... Mangano is averaging 16.1 points, 10.0 rebounds and 3.2 blocks per game. The last Ivy League player to average a double-double for a season, or in league play, was Harvard's Kyle Snowden in 1995-96. ... Morgan (12.4) and Braswell (11.2) also average double figures.* Outlook: This Yale team is seemingly never out of a game. Mangano has made a tremendous jump as a junior and is in the conversation for player of the year. Typical of a James Jones team, the Bulldogs are sound defensively. They rank second in the league in both field goal percentage defense and three-point field goal percentage defense.Cornell coach Bill Courtney said the Big Red will be without sophomore forward Errick Peck, who's attending to a family matter. His presence will be missed, but the common theme for Cornell in recent weeks has been balanced contributions. Cornell will need that to finish the season with a win.

  • Cornell RPI Watch: The RPI (Rating Percentage Index) is a measure of strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It does not consider the margin of victory, but only whether or not a team won and where the game was played (home/away/neutral court). The formula is 25% team winning percentage (WP), 50% opponents' average winning percentage (OWP), and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP). (See: CollegeRPI.com for a further explanation of the formula.) The RPI may be the most influential factor in NCAA Tournament seeding. Cornell's RPI rank as of March 6 is No. 212 out of 347 total Division I teams. While neither the Ken Pomeroy or Jeff Sagarin rankings are used by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee, the KenPom.com site ranks Cornell No. 191 in the nation, while the USA Today Sagarin rankings have Cornell at No. 205. Both sites are predominantly used by fans and the media.
  • Game Recaps-Below are links to our game recaps from each of Cornell's games this season. Associated press recaps courtesy of Rivals.com/YahooSports.com are always available by clicking on Cornell's schedule/results on the right column of this blog.
  1. at Albany W 65-61 (video recaps)
  2. at Seton Hall L 68-92
  3. vs. Delaware W 75-61 (video recap)
  4. vs. St. Bonaventure L 54-56
  5. at Lehigh L 57-60
  6. at Boston University L 61-66
  7. at Syracuse L 58-78
  8. at Minnesota L 66-71 (video recap)
  9. at Binghamton L 68-69
  10. vs. Bucknell L 64-75
  11. vs. New Hampshire (@ VCU) L 66-68
  12. vs. Wofford (@VCU) W 86-80
  13. vs. Buffalo L 66-78
  14. vs. Stony Brook W 60-52
  15. at Columbia L 75-79
  16. Columbia L 66-70
  17. at Dartmouth L 57-64
  18. at Harvard L 57-78 (video recap)
  19. at Yale L 70-71
  20. at Brown W 91-79 (video recap)
  21. vs. Penn W 82-71 (video recap)
  22. vs. Princeton L 55-57 (video recap)
  23. vs. Harvard L 60-73 (video recap)
  24. vs. Dartmouth W 96-76 (video recap)
  25. at Princeton L 66-84
  26. at Penn W 74-72
  27. vs. Brown W 75-66
  28. vs. Yale W 68-55
IVY LEAGUE COMPOSITE SCHEDULE

Friday, November 12
Columbia 71 La Salle 82 Box Score - Recap
Rutgers 73 Princeton 78 OT Box Score - Recap
Cornell 65 Albany 61 Box Score - Recap
Brown 69 Fordham 65 Box Score - Recap

Saturday, November 13
Harvard 53 George Mason 66 Box Score - Recap
Davidson 64 Penn 69 Box Score - Recap
Dartmouth 52 Providence 87 Box Score - Recap
Yale 75 Quinnipiac 84 Box Score - Recap

Sunday, November 14
Cornell 68 Seton Hall 92 Noon [SNY/ESPN3/ESPN Full Court] Box Score - Recap
Princeton 60 Duke 97 [ESPNU] Box Score - Recap

Monday, November 15
Maryland-Eastern Shore 74 Columbia 108 Box Score - Recap
Yale 55 Providence 58 Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, November 16
Brown 67 Rhode Island 92 Box Score - Recap
New Hampshire 55 Dartmouth 53 Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, November 17
Delaware 61 Cornell 75 Box Score - Recap
Holy Cross 49 Harvard 72 Box Score - Recap
Penn 54 Manhattan 59 Box Score - Recap
Columbia 66 St. John’s 79 Box Score - Recap

Thursday, November 18
Yale 75 Boston College 67 Box Score - Recap

Friday, November 19
St. Bonaventure 56 Cornell 54 Box Score - Recap
Dartmouth 71 Hartford 57 Box Score - Recap

Saturday, November 20
Harvard 75 Mercer 69 Box Score - Recap
Sacred Heart 67 Brown 81 Box Score - Recap
Columbia 76 Longwood 95 Box Score - Recap
Drexel 77 Penn 56 Box Score - Recap

Sunday, November 21
Dartmouth 59 Loyola (Md.) 73 Box Score - Recap

Monday, November 22
Cornell 57 Lehigh 60 Box Score - Recap
Princeton 64 James Madison 65 Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, November 23
Bucknell 55 Princeton 66 [at JMU] Box Score - Recap
Colgate 63 Columbia 76 Box Score - Recap
Quinnipiac 69 Dartmouth 52 Box Score - Recap
Lafayette 65 Penn 74 Box Score - Recap
Yale 47 Illinois 73 [ESPNU] Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, November 24
St. Francis (N.Y.) 63 Brown 67 Box Score - Recap
Harvard 69 Bryant 66 Box Score - Recap
Presbyterian 69 Princeton 67 [at JMU] Box Score - Recap

Saturday, November 27
Brown 66 New Hampshire 70 Box Score - Recap
Army 79 Yale 87 Box Score - Recap
Colgate 63 Dartmouth 80 Box Score - Recap
Cornell 61 Boston University 66 Box Score - Recap
Penn 58 Pittsburgh 82 [ESPN3.com] Box Score - Recap

Sunday, November 28
Colorado 66 Harvard 82 Box Score - Recap
Columbia 64 American 62 Box Score - Recap
Siena 77 Princeton 86 Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, November 30
Cornell 58 Syracuse 78 [ESPN3.com/Big East Sports Network] Box Score - Recap
Maryland-Baltimore County 59 Penn 71 Box Score - Recap
Princeton 82 Lafayette 64 [Lafayette Sports Network] Box Score - Recap
Hartford 76 Yale 81 Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, December 1
Columbia 68 Bucknell 73 Box Score - Recap
Dartmouth 53 Vermont 80 Box Score - Recap
Fordham 57 Harvard 80 Box Score - Recap

Thursday, December 2
Brown 46 Hartford 58 [Connecticut Sports Network] Box Score - Recap

Saturday, December 4
Army 52 vs. Penn, 68 Box Score - Recap
Harvard 62 Michigan 65 [Big Ten Network] Box Score - Recap
Yale 78 Vermont 82 Box Score - Recap
Brown 62 Maine 54 Box Score - Recap
Stony Brook 72 Columbia 73 Box Score - Recap
Cornell 66 Minnesota 71 [Big Ten Network] Box Score - Recap

Sunday, December 5
Saint Joseph’s 65 Princeton 74 Box Score - Recap

Monday, December 6
Brown 64 Providence 91 Box Score - Recap
Albany 53 Yale 74 Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, December 7
WPI 54 Harvard 69 Box Score - Recap
Wagner 71 Columbia 77 Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, December 8
Princeton 64 Monmouth 61 Box Score - Recap
Yale 75 Bryant 53 Box Score - Recap
Villanova 65 Penn 53 [The Comcast Network] Box Score - Recap

Saturday, December 11
Boston University 71 Harvard 87 Box Score - Recap
Bryant 72 Columbia 76 Box Score - Recap
Army 68 Dartmouth 71 Box Score - Recap

Sunday, December 12
Princeton 82 Tulsa 78 (2 OT) Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, December 14
Dartmouth 61 St. Francis (N.Y.) 69 Box Score - Recap

Friday, December 17
Princeton 69 Wagner 57 Box Score - Recap

Saturday, December 18
Cornell 68 Binghamton 69 Box Score - Recap

Sunday, December 19
Dartmouth 42 Iowa State 71 Box Score - Recap
Sacred Heart 71 Yale 62 Box Score - Recap

Monday, December 20
Bucknell 75 Cornell 64 Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, December 21
Army 88 Brown 86 Box Score - Recap
Dartmouth 67 Drake 59 Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, December 22
Princeton 75 Towson 65 Box Score - Recap
Harvard 52 Connecticut 81 [SNY] Box Score - Recap
Penn 78 Delaware 68 Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, December 28
Yale 44 Stanford 60 [Comcast SportsNet Bay Area] Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, December 29
New Hampshire 68 Cornell 66 [at VCU] Box Score - Recap
Monmouth 69 Harvard 74 Box Score - Recap
Brown 51 Central Connecticut State 67 Box Score - Recap
Penn 57 Marist 66 Box Score - Recap
Princeton 65 Northeastern 63 [at UCF] Box Score - Recap

Thursday, December 30
Cornell 86 Wofford 80 [at VCU] Box Score - Recap
Princeton vs. Furman/Central Florida, 5/7:30 pm [at UCF]
Columbia 74 Maine 71 Box Score - Recap
Dartmouth 57 Bucknell 74 Box Score - Recap

Friday, December 31
Bryant 71 Brown 84 Box Score - Recap
Lehigh 62 Yale 57 Box Score - Recap
MIT 58 Harvard 84 Box Score - Recap

Sunday, January 2
Elon 70 Columbia 69 Box Score - Recap

Monday, January 3
Buffalo 78 Cornell 66 Box Score - Recap
Dartmouth 47 Army 67 Box Score - Recap
Penn 62 Kentucky 86 [ESPNU] Box Score - Recap
Brown 67 American 77 Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, January 5
Columbia 76 Lafayette 73 Box Score - Recap
Harvard 78 Boston College 69 Box Score - Recap
Marist 57 Princeton 68 Box Score - Recap
Yale 77 Holy Cross 76 OT Box Score - Recap

Saturday, January 8
Stony Brook 52 Cornell 60 Box Score - Recap
Baruch 57 Yale 85 Box Score - Recap
*Harvard 68 Dartmouth 53 Box Score - Recap
Lyndon State 55 Brown 88 Box Score - Recap
Union (N.Y.) 59 Columbia 64 Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, January 12
Penn 83 La Salle 89 OT [The Comcast Network] Box Score - Recap

Saturday, January 15
*Yale 69 Brown 64 Box Score - Recap
Harvard 67 George Washington 62 Box Score - Recap
*Cornell 75 Columbia 79 Box Score - Recap

Monday, January 17
Quinnipiac 78 Brown 87 Box Score - Recap
Dartmouth 64 Colgate 67 Box Score - Recap

Wednesday, January 19
Penn 56 Temple 73 Box Score - Recap

Saturday, January 22
*Brown 51 Yale 59 Box Score - Recap
*Dartmouth 50 Harvard 59 Box Score - Recap
*Columbia 70 Cornell 66 [Time Warner] Box Score - Recap
Saint Joseph’s 61 Penn 73 [The Comcast Network] Box Score - Recap

Sunday, January 23
College of New Jersey 40 Princeton 73 Box Score - Recap

Friday, January 28
*Brown 60 Princeton 78 [Verizon FiOS 1] Box Score - Recap
*Cornell 57 Dartmouth 64 Box Score - Recap
*Columbia 66 Harvard 77 Box Score - Recap
*Yale 58 Penn 66 [The Comcast Network] [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap

Saturday, January 29
*Cornell 57 Harvard 78 Box Score - Recap
*Yale 63 Princeton 67 Box Score - Recap
*Brown 78 Penn 80 OT Box Score - Recap
*Columbia 66 Dartmouth 45 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap

Friday, February 4
*Dartmouth 47 Penn 78 Box Score - Recap
*Harvard 61 Princeton 65[ESPNU] [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Columbia 79 Brown 87 Box Score - Recap
*Cornell 70 Yale 71 Box Score - Recap

Saturday, February 5
*Dartmouth 53 Princeton 68 Box Score - Recap
*Cornell 91 Brown 79 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Columbia 67 Yale 72 Box Score - Recap
*Harvard 83 Penn 82 (2OT) Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, February 8
*Penn 59 Princeton 62 OT [Verizon FiOS 1] Box Score - Recap

Friday, February 11
*Brown 75 Dartmouth 66 Box Score - Recap
*Princeton 76 Columbia 46 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Penn 71 Cornell 82 OT Box Score - Recap
*Yale 75 Harvard 78 Box Score - Recap

Saturday, February 12
*Brown 78 Harvard 85 Box Score - Recap
*Penn 62 Columbia 75 Box Score - Recap
*Princeton 57 Cornell 55 Box Score - Recap
*Yale 69 Dartmouth 60 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap

Friday, February 18
*Penn 70 Brown 62 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Dartmouth 60 Columbia 67 Box Score - Recap
*Harvard 73 Cornell 60 Box Score - Recap
*Princeton 58 Yale 51 [YES] Box Score - Recap

Saturday, February 19
*Princeton 65 Brown 75 Box Score - Recap
*Harvard 61 Columbia 42 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Dartmouth 76 Cornell 96 Box Score - Recap
*Penn 60 Yale 58 Box Score - Recap

Friday, February 25
*Harvard 68 Brown 74 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Columbia 54 Penn 64 [The Comcast Network] Box Score - Recap
*Cornell 66Princeton 84 [Verizon FiOS 1] Box Score - Recap
*Dartmouth 75 Yale 79 OT Box Score - Recap

Saturday, February 26
*Dartmouth 76 Brown 100 Box Score - Recap
*Columbia 61 Princeton 66 Box Score - Recap
*Harvard 69 Yale 70 Box Score - Recap
*Cornell 74 Penn 72 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap

Friday, March 4
*Penn 64 Harvard 79 Box Score - Recap
*Princeton 77 Dartmouth 55 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Brown 66 Cornell 75 Box Score - Recap
*Yale 87 Columbia 81 (2 OT) Box Score - Recap

Saturday, March 5
*Penn 7o Dartmouth 58 Box Score - Recap
*Princeton 67 Harvard 79 [SIRIUS] Box Score - Recap
*Yale 55 Cornell 68 Box Score - Recap
*Brown 74 Columbia 91 Box Score - Recap

Tuesday, March 8
*Princeton at Penn, 7 pm [ESPN3] [SIRIUS]


  • Throughout the season we will provide periodic updates on Cornell's eight (8) overseas alumni playing professionally. Below, some updates:
-John McCord ('97) (SIG Strasbourg, Pro A France)-Through March 6, the 6'6" forward and long time veteran of the European leagues is averaging 10.5 points and 5.7 rebounds per game. Strasbourg sits at 8-12 and in 12th place in the 16 team league. During his roughly fifteen year pro career, McCord, a former 1st Team All Ivy League selection, has played in France's pro leagues and in England.

-Jeff Aubry ('99) (Halcones, LNBP Mexico/Puerto Rico Basketball League, Arecibo Capitanes)-Through March 6, Aubry, who splits his time in both Mexican and Puerto Rican professional leagues is averaging 5.9 points and 7.1 rebounds with Mexico's Halcones (25-11, 4th place out of 18 teams) and 4.8 points and 6.1 rebounds per game for Puerto Rico's Arecibo (22-7, 2nd place out of 10 teams). Aubry played several seasons in the NBA D League in the early part of his career with the Fayetteville Patriots and Florida Flame. During his more than a decade of pro experience, Aubry has also played professionally in the ABA and abroad in Poland, Argentina, Uruguay and Peru.

-Cody Toppert ('05) (Forli, LegaDue Italy)-Through March 6, Toppert, a 6'4" shooting guard is averaging 9.9 points and 2.3 rebounds per game for Forli. Forli is 4-17 and in 16th place out of 16 teams. Toppert previously played this season with the Plymouth Raiders of the British Basketball League before moving to Italy. Like Aubry, Toppert is a veteran of the NBA D League, a former Albuquerque Thunderbird. During his pro career, Toppert has also played in the CBA as well as in Germany, Portugal, and New Zealand.

-Jason Hartford ('08) (Ginasio, LPD Portugal)-Through March 6, the 6'9" Hartford is averaging 14.7 points and 6.4 rebounds per game. Ginasio is 7-11 and in 9th place in the 12 team league. During his career, Hartford has played professionally in Finland and Africa (Mozambique).

-Louis Dale ('10) (Gottingen, Bundesliga Germany)-Through March 6, Dale is averaging 7.8 points, 2.3 rebounds and 2.2 assists per game. Goettingen is 13-11 on the season and in 8th place out of 18 teams in the Bundesliga. Goettingen also advanced to stage 2 of the EuroCup and is one of 16 remaining teams in the tournament. Goettingen is currently 4-2 in Group J.

-Ryan Wittman ('10) (Ft. Wayne Mad Ants, NBA D-League)-Through March 6, Wittman is averaging 4.1 points and 1.5 rebounds in 14 minutes per game. Ft. Wayne is 17-22 and in 3rd place in the Eastern Conference. Before moving to the D-League during January, Wittman averaged 14.5 points, 4.2 rebounds and 2.8 assists per game for Forli in Italy's LegaDue this season.

-Jeff Foote ('10) (Maccabi Tel Aviv, Israel Winner's League/Melilla, Spanish 2nd Division)- Through March 6, Foote is averaging 9.1 points, 6.9 rebounds and 2.2 blocks per game. Melilla is 14-12 and in 7th place out of 18 teams. Foote is on loan to Melilla from Israel's Maccabi Tel Aviv.

-Jon Jaques ('10) (Ashkelon, Israel Winner's League)-Through March 6, Jaques is averaging 3.0 points and 1.7 rebounds per game. Ashkelon is 4-15 and in 10th place in the 10 team Israeli league.
  • Below is an updated directory listing of some Twitter feeds associated with the Cornell basketball program. You can also follow The Cornell Basketball Blog on Twitter.
-Josh Wexler ('88)
-Steve Cobb ('05)
-Andrew Naeve ('07)
-Jason Canady ('08)
-Khaliq Gant ('09)
-Conor Mullen ('09)
-Ryan Wittman ('10)
-Pete Reynolds ('10)
-Jon Jaques ('10)
-Louis Dale ('10)
-Alex Tyler ('10)
-Geoff Reeves ('10)
-Jeff Foote ('10)
-Andre Wilkins ('10)
-Max Groebe ('10)
-Aaron Osgood ('10)
-The Cornell Rebounders Club
-Andrew Ferry ()
-Peter McMillan ()
-Errick Peck ()
-Dominick Scelfo ()
-Jake Mathews ()
-Dwight Tarwater ()
-Manny Sahota ()
-Dave LaMore
-Shonn Miller
-Assistant Coach Ricky Yahn ()
-Assistant Coach Mike Blaine ()
-Assistant Coach Marlon Sears ()
-Brian Delaney, Ithaca Journal ()
-Cornell Daily Sun Sports ()
-Slope Sports ()
-WVBR Sports ()
-Former assistant coach, Jay Larranaga ()

And a few reminders....

Visit The Cornell Basketball Blog's Community Forum and Message Board to interact with other fans of Cornell and Ivy League basketball. Membership is free! You may also follow us on Twitter.

Blueprint for Success, the yearbook commemorating Cornell's 2009-2010 season is now on sale and available for delivery. Visit the Cornell Athletics website to order your copy today! Or pick up a copy sold in the Cornell Store on campus.


Fans of the basketball program in the Ithaca area should not miss the opportunity to join the Cornell Rebounders Club.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

Does the team have their summer trip to Europe this year?

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Stay tuned... all your questions, wishes and dreams will be answered.

Anonymous said...

Wishes and dreams? I dream of experienced Bigs. Don't play with us; you've started again.

Anonymous said...

ITALY.

Anonymous said...

Any committments on "home" games for the guys next season ??

Anonymous said...

Cornell vs. Forli?