Wednesday, March 7, 2012

News and Notes: Wednesday Edition

Below, some news and notes for Wednesday...

The Cornell Basketball Blog will be publishing details of Cornell's 2012-2013 schedule in the coming days. One game already in the public realm is a visit to Vanderbilt as a return home for rising senior Miles Asafo Adjei who grew up in the Nashville area. Above, a photo from the Cornell Daily Sun from a December 29, 1987 game when Cornell faced Vanderbilt in the championship of the Music City Classic. Cornell would finish the season as the 1987-1988 Ivy League Champions and advance to the NCAA Tournament. It was the second and last meeting between the two schools. Vanderbilt prevailed, 95-79. Future Chicago Bull, Will Perdue scored 31 points for the Commodores.
  • Jeff Foote (Cornell '10), an NBA D-League All Star, and his Springfield Armor are back in action Thursday against Canton. All D-League games are broadcast online via Futurecast on the league website. Summarizing the Armor's weekend games, a pair of defeats to Maine, Nets Daily writes of Foote's Sunday performance, Jeff Foote, the Armor's seven footer, had a sub-par game, with eight and five, tweeting afterwards that it's time for him and the team to 're-focus.'" Foote is currently 5th in the NBA D-League in double-doubles. In this week's NBA D-League Prospect Watch, the league website ranks Foote as the #7 post prospect and writes, "No. 7: JEFF FOOTE, Center, Springfield Armor (Cornell)-Foote can take over a game. He just doesn’t do it nearly often enough to be considered an elite big man, yet. However, he’s taken massive strides (figuratively; at 7 feet tall, he already took literal ones) under Bob MacKinnon in Springfield, going from a wait-til-next-year Prospect coming out of Nets camp to a potential post presence down the line for an NBA team in need. He’ll get pushed around by bigger bodies and won’t block a ton of shots, but he can fly up and down the court and tends to take good care of the ball on the low block. "
  • Busting Brackets writes of the Ivy League, "The recruiting game in the league has changed dramatically in recent years, with schools bringing in new coaches like Tommy Amaker at Harvard, who previously coached at Michigan, Seton Hall and Duke, or Bill Courtney (Cornell), Mitch Henderson (Princeton), and Paul Cormier (Dartmouth), who all have experience as high-major assistants... Things began to change [in the Ivy League] when Cornell rattled off three straight Ivy titles between 2007 and 2010, ending that run with a surprise appearance in the NCAA Tournament’s Sweet Sixteen."
  • In reference to Penn and Princeton, ESPN's Dana O'Neil writes, "both programs had fallen on tough times, giving way first to Cornell and more recently to Harvard."
  • Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe was asked by the staff of the Harvard Crimson to talk about Harvard basketball. Ryan stated that Cornell "set the bar" for the Ivy League by advancing to the 2010 Sweet Sixteen and that "we are only two years removed" from the accomplishment. "Cornell did it," Ryan emphasized.

  • The Cornell Daily Sun published an "Off the Grid" feature with Cornell's senior basketball players. The Sun writes:

For this week's Off the Grid we hear from seniors on the men's basketball team who just finished up their last games of the season: Chris Wroblewski, Anthony Gatlin and Max Groebe.

What’s your favorite guilty pleasure TV show?

Chris: Gossip Girl.

Anthony: Swamp People (no guilt).

Max: Gossip Girl with Ski.

In another life you were probably:

Chris: A rock star.

Anthony: Just someone random.

Max: A pornstar.

Nicki Minaj or Katy Perry?

Chris: Katy Perry.

Anthony: Nicki Minaj.

Max: Katy Perry.

“I used to think Cornell ________ but now I know that ________.”

Chris: Had poor sports teams, we have some of the best programs in the country.

Anthony: Had too many hills, it has too many hills

Max: Could not rage, there is 238 Linden Ave.

Linsanity is:

Chris: Trash.

Anthony: An overused pun.

Max: How many Ivy League titles does he have?

Where’s your favorite place on campus?

Chris: Trillium.

Anthony: Bethe cafeteria.

Max: Club Trill.

Teammate ________ will most likely end up ________.

Chris: Max Groebe will end up home in Cuba.

Anthony: Most of my teammates will most likely end up back here next year.

Max: Jake Matthews will most likely end up being swept away by the wind.

Sometimes when you think no one is around you:

Chris: Sing Katy Perry, Rihanna, and Kesha.

Anthony: Think no one is around me.

Max: Fine tune my beer pong game.

  • Game Recaps-Below are links to our game recap sections from each of Cornell's games this season.
  1. November 11, 2011 at St. Bonaventure L 58-79
  2. November 14, 2011 vs. Binghamton W 76-61
  3. November 16, 2011 at Buffalo L 59-68
  4. November 20, 2011 vs. Boston University W 71-66
  5. November 22, 2011 at Delaware L 68-76
  6. November 27, 2011 vs. American L 63-65
  7. December 3, 2011 vs. Lehigh W 81-79 (OT)
  8. December 17, 2011 vs. Albany W 85-82 (OT)
  9. December 19, 2011 at Illinois L 60-64 (TV: ESPN3)
  10. December 21, 2011 at Penn State L 67-74 (TV: Big Ten Network)
  11. December 28, 2011 at Stony Brook L 58-69 (OT) (TV: Cablevision 118)
  12. December 31, 2011 at Bucknell L 60-63
  13. January 3, 2012 at Maryland L 62-70 (TV: ESPN3)
  14. January 7, 2012 vs. Albright W 78-60
  15. January 13, 2012 vs. Princeton W 67-59
  16. January 14, 2012 vs. Penn L 52-64
  17. January 21, 2012 at Columbia L 56-61
  18. January 28, 2012 vs. Columbia W 65-60
  19. February 3, 2012 at Harvard L 60-71
  20. February 4, 2012 at Dartmouth W 68-59
  21. February 10, 2012 vs. Yale W 85-84 OT
  22. February 11, 2012 vs. Brown W 72-63
  23. February 17, 2012 at Penn L 66-73
  24. February 18, 2012 at Princeton L 57-75
  25. February 24, 2012 at Brown W 69-63
  26. February 25, 2012 at Yale L 40-71
  27. March 2, 2012 vs. Dartmouth W 70-57
  28. March 3, 2012 vs. Harvard L 63-67
  • Cornell RPI Watch: The RPI (Rating Percentage Index) is a measure of strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It does not consider the margin of victory, but only whether or not a team won and where the game was played (home/away/neutral court). The formula is 25% team winning percentage (WP), 50% opponents' average winning percentage (OWP), and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP). (See: for a further explanation of the formula.) The RPI may be the most influential factor in NCAA Tournament seeding. Cornell's RPI rank as of March 7 is No. 182 out of 344 total Division I teams. While neither the Ken Pomeroy or Jeff Sagarin rankings are used by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee, the site ranks Cornell No. 206 in the nation, while the USA Today Sagarin rankings have Cornell at No. 204 Both sites are predominantly used by fans and the media.

Friday, November 11
Johnson & Wales 66 Brown 86 (Box Score - Recap)
Columbia 57 Connecticut 70[ESPNU] (Box Score - Recap)
Cornell 58 St. Bonaventure 79 (Box Score - Recap)
MIT 49 Harvard 76 (Box Score - Recap)
Dartmouth 56 Rutgers 62 (Box Score - Recap)
Penn 59 Maryland-Baltimore County 45 (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 73 Central Connecticut State 69 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, November 12
Wagner 73 Princeton 57 (Box Score - Recap)

Monday, November 14
Albany 77 Brown 68 (NIT Tip-Off-1st Round@Syracuse, N.Y.)[ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)
Temple 73 Penn 67 OT (Box Score - Recap)
Furman 58 Columbia 62 (Box Score - Recap)
Binghamton 61 Cornell 76 (Box Score - Recap)

Tuesday, November 15
Harvard 73 Holy Cross 64 (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 62 Quinnipiac 68 [SNY] (Box Score - Recap)
Brown 52 Manhattan 54 NIT Tip Consolation@Syracuse, N.Y. [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, November 16
Cornell 59 Buffalo 68 (Box Score - Recap)
Vermont 65 Dartmouth 53 (Box Score - Recap)
Princeton 58 North Carolina State 60 [ESPNU] (Box Score - Recap)

Thursday, November 17
Penn 78 Rider 72 OT (Box Score - Recap)
Lyndon State 37 Yale 101 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, November 19
Buffalo 53 Princeton 61 (Box Score - Recap)
Hartford 52 Brown 59 (Box Score - Recap)
American 66 Columbia 58 (Box Score - Recap)
Bryant 62 Dartmouth 66 (Box Score - Recap)
Robert Morris 60 Penn 66 (Box Score - Recap)
Harvard 77 Loyola Marymount 67 (Box Score - Recap)

Sunday, November 20
Boston University 66 Cornell 71 (Box Score - Recap)

Sunday, November 20
Boston University 66 Cornell 71 (Box Score - Recap)

Monday, November 21
Brown 48 George Mason 74 (NIT Consolation Fairfax, VA) (Box Score - Recap)

Tuesday, November 22
Brown 79 Monmouth 71 (NIT Consolation Fairfax, VA) (Box Score - Recap)
Columbia 53 Stony Brook 67 (Box Score - Recap)
Cornell 64 Delaware 72 (Box Score - Recap)
Wagner 71 Penn 65 (Box Score - Recap)
Elon 56 Princeton 55 (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 62 Seton Hall 73 (Box Score - Recap)

Thursday, November 24
Dartmouth 69 San Francisco 71 (Great Alaska Shootout) (Box Score - Recap)
Harvard 75 Utah 47 [HDNet] (Battle 4 Atlantis Bahamas) (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, November 25
Dartmouth 64 vs. Alaska-Anchorage 52(Great Alaska Shootout) (Box Score - Recap)
Harvard 46 Florida State 41 [VERSUS] (Battle 4 Atlantis Bahamas) (Box Score - Recap)
Princeton 56 Bucknell 62 (Legends Classic, Lewisberg, PA) (Box Score - Recap)
Pittsburgh 78 Penn 58 [TCN] (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, November 26
Yale 84 Army 75 (Box Score - Recap)
Columbia 59 Manhattan 41 (Box Score - Recap)
Princeton 56 Morehead State 68 (Legends Classic, Lewisberg, PA) (Box Score - Recap)
James Madison 60 Penn 58 [TCN] (Philly Hoop Group Classic) (Box Score - Recap)
Dartmouth 48 Western Michigan 65 (Great Alaska Shootout) (Box Score - Recap)
Harvard 59 Central Florida 49 [VERSUS] (Battle 4 Atlantis Bahamas) (Box Score - Recap)

Sunday, November 27
Brown 64 Sacred Heart 77 (Box Score - Recap)
Princeton 66 West Alabama 66 (Legends Classic, Lewisberg, PA) (Box Score - Recap)
American 65 Cornell 63 (Box Score - Recap)

Monday, November 28
Swarthmore 42 Columbia 104 (Box Score - Recap)

Tuesday, November 29
Manhattan 72 Penn 75 (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 74 Hartford 69 (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, November 30
Dartmouth 50 New Hampshire 53 (Box Score - Recap)
Lafayette 69 Princeton 54 (Box Score - Recap)
Rhode Island 56 Brown 65 [myRITV] (Box Score - Recap)

Thursday, December 1
Harvard 55 Vermont 48 (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, December 2
Columbia 69 Loyola Marymount 61 (LA Westside Centennial Classic) (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, December 3
Vermont 52 Yale 68 (Box Score - Recap)
Brown 54 Iowa 75 (Box Score - Recap)
Lehigh 79 Cornell 81 (OT) (Box Score - Recap)
Penn 65 Villanova 73 [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)
Columbia 72 North Texas 57 (Box Score - Recap) (LA Westside Centennial Classic)

Sunday, December 4
Columbia 78 La Sierra 56 (Box Score - Recap) (LA Westside Centennial Classic)
Seattle 70 Harvard 80 (Box Score - Recap)

Monday, December 5
Brown 49 Providence 80 [ESPN3/SNY] (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 73 Sacred Heart 71 (Box Score - Recap)

Tuesday, December 6
Holy Cross 45 Columbia 46 (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, December 7
Delaware 60 Penn 69 (Box Score - Recap)
New Hampshire 69 Brown 56 (Box Score - Recap)
Princeton 59 Rutgers 57 (Box Score - Recap)
Bryant 59 Yale 76 (Box Score - Recap)

Thursday, December 8
Harvard 53 Connecticut 67 [ESPN2] (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, December 10
Central Connecticut State 80 Brown 90 (Box Score - Recap)
Long Island 53 Columbia 63 (Box Score - Recap)
Harvard 76 Boston University 52 (Box Score - Recap)
Princeton 60 Drexel 64 (Box Score - Recap)
Penn 73 UCLA 77 [DirecTV] (Box Score - Recap)
Dartmouth 47 Notre Dame 65 [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)

Tuesday, December 13
Dartmouth 51 IPFW 56 (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, December 14
Princeton 72 Rider 71 OT (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, December 17
Elon 54 Dartmouth 62 (Box Score - Recap)
Albany 82 Cornell 85 OT (Box Score - Recap)

Sunday, December 18
Princeton 71 Northeastern 62 (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 68 Rhode Island 65 [COX RI] (Box Score - Recap)

Monday, December 19
Cornell 60 Illinois 64 [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)
Dartmouth 55 Colgate 61 OT (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, December 21
Dartmouth 64 Army 67 (Box Score - Recap)
Cornell 67 Penn State 74 [Big Ten Network] (Box Score - Recap)

Thursday, December 22
Florida Atlantic 51 Harvard 63 (Box Score - Recap)
Princeton 59 Siena 63 (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, December 23
Maine 71 Brown 58 (Box Score - Recap)
Dartmouth 74 Albany 82 (Box Score - Recap)
Marist 71 Penn 84 (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, December 28
Columbia 59 Marist 79 (Box Score - Recap)
Cornell 59 Stony Brook 68 OT [Cablevision] (Box Score - Recap)

Thursday, December 29
Brown 49 St. Francis (N.Y.) 66 (Box Score - Recap)
Harvard 67 Boston College 46 [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)
Penn 70 Davidson 75 (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 71 Wake Forest 72 (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, December 30
Princeton 75 Florida State 73 (3OT) [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)
Lafayette 67 Columbia 77 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, December 31
Cornell 60 Bucknell 63 (Box Score - Recap)
Holy Cross 65 Dartmouth 61 (Box Score - Recap)
Yale 70 Florida 90 [ESPNU] (Box Score - Recap)
Saint Joseph’s 69 Harvard 74 (Box Score - Recap)

Sunday, January 1
Princeton 76 Florida A&M 61 (Box Score - Recap)
Penn 55 Duke 85 [ESPNU] (Box Score - Recap)

Monday, January 2
American 70 Brown 61 (Box Score - Recap)
Fairleigh Dickinson 52 Columbia 67 (Box Score - Recap)

Tuesday, January 3
Bucknell 67 Dartmouth 59 (Box Score - Recap)
Harvard 54 Fordham 60 (Box Score - Recap)
Holy Cross 67 Yale 82 (Box Score - Recap)
Cornell 62 Maryland 70 [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, January 4
Columbia 66 Colgate 59 (Box Score - Recap)
Penn 78 Lafayette 73 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, January 7
*Dartmouth 47 Harvard 63 (Box Score - Recap)
Albright 60 Cornell 78 (Box Score - Recap)

Sunday, January 8
Columbia 65 Elon 60 (Box Score - Recap)
The College of New Jersey 68 Princeton 79 (Box Score - Recap)
St. Joseph’s (N.Y.) 86 Yale 101 (Box Score)

Tuesday, January 10
Harvard 70 Monmouth 61 (Box Score - Recap)
La Salle 68 Penn 57 (Box Score - Recap)

Wednesday, January 11
Longwood 79 Brown 77 (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, January 13
*Penn 66 Columbia 64 (Box Score - Recap)
*Princeton 59 Cornell 67 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, January 14
*Brown 64 Yale 68 (Box Score - Recap)
Longwood 67 Dartmouth 83 (Box Score - Recap)
George Washington 48 Harvard 69 (Box Score - Recap)
*Princeton 62 Columbia 58 (Box Score - Recap)
*Penn 52 Cornell 64 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, January 21
*Yale 73 Brown 60 (Box Score - Recap)
*Cornell 56 Columbia 61 (Box Score - Recap)
*Harvard 54 Dartmouth 38 (Box Score - Recap)
Saint Joseph’s 80 Penn 84 (Box Score - Recap)

Monday, January 23
Brown 67 Bryant 60 (
Box Score - Recap)

Friday, January 27

*Dartmouth 59 Brown 66 (
Box Score - Recap)
*Harvard 65 Yale 35 (
Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, January 28

*Harvard 68 Brown 59 (
Box Score - Recap)
*Columbia 60
Cornell 65 (Box Score - Recap)
*Dartmouth 52 Yale 62 (
Box Score - Recap)

Monday, January 30
*Princeton 67 Penn 82 (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, February 3
*Princeton 77 Brown 63 (Box Score - Recap)
*Columbia 64 Dartmouth 62 (Box Score - Recap)
*Cornell 60 Harvard 71 (Box Score - Recap)
*Penn 53 Yale 60 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, February 4
*Penn 65 Brown 48 (Box Score - Recap)
*Columbia 52 Harvard 57 (Box Score - Recap)
*Cornell 68 Dartmouth 59 (Box Score - Recap)
*Princeton 54 Yale 58 (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, February 10
*Brown 60 Columbia 86 (Box Score - Recap)
*Yale 84 Cornell 85 (OT) Box Score - Recap
*Harvard 56 Penn 50 (Box Score - Recap)
*Dartmouth 47 Princeton 59 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, February 11
*Brown 63 Cornell 72 (Box Score - Recap)
*Yale 59 Columbia 58 (Box Score - Recap)
*Dartmouth 55 Penn 58 (Box Score - Recap)
*Harvard 62 Princeton 70 [ESPNU] (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, February 17
*Brown 42 Harvard 69 (Box Score - Recap)
*Columbia 66 Princeton 77 [ESPNU] (Box Score - Recap)
*Cornell 66 Penn 73 (Box Score - Recap)
*Yale 70 Dartmouth 61 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, February 18
*Brown 53 Dartmouth 58 (Box Score - Recap)
*Columbia 59 Penn 61 OT (Box Score - Recap)
*Cornell 57 Princeton 75 (Box Score - Recap)
*Yale 51 Harvard 66 (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, February 24
*Cornell 69 Brown 63 (Box Score - Recap)
*Columbia 67 Yale 75 [YES] (Box Score - Recap)
*Penn 57 Dartmouth 54 (Box Score - Recap)
*Princeton 64 Harvard 67 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, February 25
*Columbia 78 Brown 94 (Box Score - Recap)
*Cornell 40 Yale 71 (Box Score - Recap)
*Princeton 85 Dartmouth 61 (Box Score - Recap)
*Penn 55 Harvard 54 [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)

Friday, March 2
*Brown 43 Penn 54 (Box Score - Recap)
*Harvard 77 Columbia 70 OT (Box Score - Recap)
*Dartmouth 57 Cornell 70 (Box Score - Recap)
*Yale 57 Princeton 64 (Box Score - Recap)

Saturday, March 3
*Dartmouth 55 Columbia 61 (Box Score - Recap)
*Harvard 67 Cornell 63 [ESPN3] (Box Score - Recap)
*Yale 47 Penn 68 (Box Score - Recap)
*Brown 47 Princeton 81 (Box Score - Recap)

Tuesday, March 6
*Penn 52 Princeton 62 (Box Score - Recap)


Anonymous said...

LOL at Wrobo calling Linsanity "trash"

Anonymous said...

Lol @ Chris ... as far as many Cornell basketball fans are concerned, you're a rock star in THIS life.

Anonymous said...

Old conventional wisdom: Upholding the Ivy League's academic and recruiting standards will enable your program to maintain its integrity.

New conventional wisdom: Secondary recruiting violations and relaxed academic standards will enable you to reach the postseason.

Anonymous said...

Losing Ski next year will be tough. But with practically no truly experienced vets, the youngins -- many of whom had their moments this year -- will have no choice but to mature.

Cornell was the only bottom-division team that was able to pick up even one win against one of the top division teams (they had two). They had this mix of alright games combined with horrendous 3-of-19-from-the-arc type games that displayed the inconsistency of youth. 3 of their losses were respectable while 4 of them were disgraceful. I think they can look at how their games at home went to see their potential, and hopefully those "bad days on the road" type games are reduced to rare flukes.

Hopefully Courtney will continue to grow as a coach as well, and set high standards for himself and his career. Even Brian Delaney has wondered about his erratic subbing patterns and whether they hinder flow. If he has a plan we just don't understand then fine, but a third or even fourth year of some of the unfortunate records we've seen under him, like the lowest shooting numbers in over a decade, will make it tough to keep blaming this stuff on the kids.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Cornell fans have short, short memories.

Steve Donahue had erratic substitution patterns prior to his great run. Some people compared them to hockey line changes (5 subs at once).

And from 2000 through 2004, the teams were terrible with mass player defections and transfers out of the program.

Bill is a young and inexperienced coach and he inherited a young and inexperienced team.

He had one All Ivy player on his team, Chris Wroblewski. And he finished around .500 in both of his first two seasons.

Can everyone please allow him 4-5 years to build a program?

Donahue had 7, Amaker had 5. Bill deserves the same patience.

Anonymous said...

The real test over the next 3 years is to see how many "high" level recruits Bill and his staff bring in. The current crop look good, but we need more, and in particular, those with a real "hunger to win". BTW, Ski is right! MM

Anonymous said...

It's Harvard's time. Let's hope it's a short reign.

Anonymous said...

I understand as fans that we must be patient but when you have highly recruited kids coming into a program and they are losing then that can, I am sure, be discouraging and this makes me nervous. I just don't want our players to defect as you indicate happened with Donahue.

Not only do the young players need to grow up fast but the Coach needs to find ways to improve also. He could really use some go to offensive plays to go along with the good defense.

Anonymous said...

Although I don't think the players themselves might do this (or at least, I HOPE they don't), I r-e-a-l-l-y hate it when fans are like "oh well we have a new coach" or "we weren't gonna contend anyway" to shrug off unneccessarily losing winnable games due to things like 25% shooting. (I mean, how many other people shrugged when we threw away a couple of early winnable games only to realize that more than half the league was still in contention after 8 games & think "oh crap"?)

Anonymous said...

I have been pretty disappointed in the Courtney era so far. He gets another year from me to show some real improvement, but the last 2 years couldn't be termed anything but disappointing.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

The staff knows we need improvement.

But some of you continuously overlook injuries, youth, and inexperience that this team faced.

How many Harvard players were injured this year? Princeton? Yale? Penn?

Cue the crickets chirping.

Those teams were healthy. Not Cornell.

Cornell needs 4 full years under Courtney to evaluate the direction.

Right now, there was slight improvement from year 1 to 2 and despite losing injuries and an improved league.

Can we see what year 3 produces?

Anonymous said...

Seriously folks, get a grip. Courtney has had two seasons and, frankly, inherited a very weak team after the 2010 class graduated and Donahue left.

A .500 finish in league play without a single minute from Peck is better than most expected from this team.

Anonymous said...

I have to disagree that Courtney inherited a team that needed rebuilding. Obviously there is no way to know, but I would bet that Donahue and his staff would have faired much better the last 2 yrs if they had stayed at Cornell. Despite losing the "Big 3" and that amazing class of 2010, I am SURE that Donahue would have had a successful following year. Courtney did not inherit a dog of a program... he inherited some great young players with some experienced older players and some transfers that should have been more successful. They do not run enough stuff on offense and foul way too much on D...

Anonymous said...

Cornell people hate Jeremy Lin.

Anonymous said...

Backcourt needs to score next year. Of the returning players, only Johnny and Galal got decent mins at the guard spots at 21 mins per game each. But, JG shot 38% overall and 31% from three, and Galal shot 36% overall and 22% from three point land. MAA is not a shooter either. So, other guys need to step up to fill the void and replace Wrobo and Ferry's perimeter game. That will be key. Gotta supplement the great D with a scoring punch.

Anonymous said...

Sides will never agree on this. I'm definitely on the "it was the coach" side, all while believing that the coach is growing and the job and deserves time, support, and patience.

I just couldnt't look at Ski, Ferry, Errick, Wire, Groebe, and Coury and say they were untalented for the simple reason that Ferry was clearly good and the other five had been perfectly fine the year before. Were they such an untalented lot that it explained the worst fouling and poorest shooting in over a decade? Were they the truly the worst bunch we had seen in 10 years? No way. Yet this roster filled with Div I transfers and dudes with multiple Div I offers were often cruelly accused of lacking Div I talent.

Courtney just seemed to take forever to make the right decisions, or to make any decision at all (took 3/4ths of year to choose a rotation). I.e., choosing the more athletic but more inexperienced Osgood over the shorter but more experienced Coury what had been PERFECTLY FINE the year before backing up Jeff Foote including going HAM on the boards against KANSAS and hitting 50% of his field goals on the year. Only after Osgood got injured at the start of Ivy games did Courtney have no choice but to let Coury acclimate and what happens? Coury starts averaging double digits and we start winning (too late).

Many new coaches who inherited teams in far worse condition than Courtney have done fine by their first or second year. Wagner used to be worse than BROWN, now they're a top 100 team. UNCG was sucking so much that their coach was fired midseason; their new 28-year old coach proceeded to go 12-5 for the rest of the year. New coach doesn't mean "will suck for three to five years". Coaches just differ in ability and rate of progress.

Anonymous said...

Agreed with anon above. BRF, you just can't compare the situation Courtney inherited to the one Donahue walked into.

Donahue joined the program when it was barren and bereft of hope. He was building from practically nothing. Courtney inherited a rebuilding Sweet 16 team that could recruit on that pedigree.

Now, I absolutely think that rebuilding and some struggles in that process are normal and to be expected -- UNC missed the tourney the year after winning the title two years ago. And there's no doubt that the cupboard was left somewhat barren by Coach D -- especially in the front court. It does not appear that there was a big man left behind that could perform at a level close to any of Foote/Tyler/Hartford/Naeve/Taylor.

But Courtney's handling of the situation raises serious concerns:

1. Game management. This is a major red flag, and for a team that expects to compete quickly it is not a shortfall that it can afford its coach.

2. Changing of philosophies -- Donahue built a team around a very specific offensive model. Courtney came in and switched it up completely. Perhaps we couldn't expect a new coach to follow exactly in Donahue's footsteps, but scrapping the system entirely was a questionable move IMO, in that it undermined the chemistry and effectiveness that the remaining Donahue guys could have had. It may still work out, but at this point the decision to go for the "60 minutes of hell" style is a question mark on both Courtney and Noel's resumes

3. Player development -- this has been a huge issue. Thus far, the only player that has made significant progress in his game in 2 years has been Jonny Gray. Eitan may have taken a half step forward. Many others have taken steps back.

Ultimately, this criterion will be the one that makes or breaks Courtney -- if we see guys like Miller, Cancer, Cherry, Lamore, Eitan take major steps forward next year, this team will be competitive. If they stagnate, we're in for a rough time. At that point, we will be looking at a Glenn Miller/Penn type scenario, and it may turn out that it is time for a coaching change.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

You guys are wrong there.

In Steve Donahue's first season he inherited Ray Mercedes, Ka'ron Barnes and Wallace Prather. The cupboard was not empty.

Mercedes and Barnes were both All Ivy guys and yet the team won 10 games in Donahue's first two seasons.

It took Steve time to (1) get his type of players and (2) to find an offense that fit those players.

Zach Spiker joined Steve's staff down the line and brought with him the West Virginia offense.

Together, they along with coaches such as Izzi Metz and Nat Graham, recruited kids who could fit the system and the team later took off.

Some luck helped as well on the recruiting front.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Everything changed for Cornell in 2006-2007. Prior to that season there was no feeling that Cornell would win a title anytime soon.
Donahue's future did not look incredibly secure.

But when Dale and Wittman were frosh in 2006-2007, we knew we had something special (with Gore coming back the next season). But from 2000 through 2006, Cornell was a mid pack type of Ivy team.

In fact, in Donahue's first 4 seasons, he never won 7 Ivy games. In years 5 and 6, he won 8 games each. Very, very modest improvement.

It took him a 7th year to get 9 wins (2006-2007) and he did it will a seven footer in Andrew Naeve and his stellar freshman class (Wittman/Dale).

If fans are going to give Donahue 7 years to get 9 wins... you ought to at least give Bill Courtney 4-5 years.

Donahue left Cornell partially because he knew he did not have much talent left. If he felt Cornell was loaded, he would have stayed like he did in 2009. He knew very well this team was going to have to rebuild and become a .500 club after losing 8 seniors.

Anonymous said...

BRF - Naeve was only 6'10". Either you didn't know that, or are exaggerating for the sake of your argument. I have a hunch it's the latter.

Anonymous said...

This is hard to explain but I'll give it a shot. It seems like people can look at Donahue's situation and use it to argue two different things.

It took Donahue about 5 years to get going and 7 to get competitive. It was only midway through his tenure that he possibility of Cornell being competitive even arose, arriving with Spiker and some nice recruits. Prior to that, Donahue couldn't fail to meet expectations because there were none. Like Sullivan remained at Harvard for 16 years despite lacking competitiveness, nobody really cared how long Donahue was staying around.

Does that mean it takes 5 years for teams to get going? I don't think so. I think Donahue's first four-ish years simply shouldn't count because there was so little hope or expectation, I doubt anyone was even aiming to build a calibre program or believed it was possible. Donahue himself tried to bolt for Penn.

In most schools that care about basketball, people want you to be nearing your peak potential after five years, not just getting started. After all by that time you have been recruiting and coaching all your guys for a while. If after four or five you're in the bottom divisions of your league, you'll usually be fired. But Donahue wasn't, cos no one cared or believed Cornell could be at the top anyway.

I'm just saying, I think Donahue was given so long to even get going because nobody really cared, not because that's how long it takes.

Anonymous said...

"How many Harvard players were injured this year? Princeton? Yale? Penn?

Cue the crickets chirping."

You're joking about Penn injuries, right? We lost our best frosh before the season started in a need position PF in Greg Louis and our second best player broke his foot a few games into the Ivy league slate and was a shadow of himself from the non-league slate.

Say what you will about Yale, Princeton or Harvard injuries, but Penn should not be on that list.

That said, as a Penn fan from the outside there are some real positive signs from Coach Courtney and Cornell. Miller looks great as a frosh and while the young guards need refinement, they look to have pretty high ceilings. As Cornell fans, you might not want to agree, but Courtney came into a situation with one really good player and a lot of role players. If his recruiting stays similar to this year you could be on to something.

Anonymous said...

Anon # 2:12 here:

I wasn't comparing the roster Donahue inherited with the roster Courtney inherited. I was comparing the general state of the program and the expectations that went along with that state.

The fact is, in sports we expect success to breed more success. So when a perpetually middling teams struggles through a few more years you can deal with that. When a Sweet 16 team takes 4-5 years of "rebuilding" to even get back to being competitive in its own league, that's the kind of scenario that tends to be a lot less acceptable to fans and administrators.

Like I said, Courtney's real test will be next year. He will have a significant cadre of his own players, and a large of Coach D's guys he's had for 3 years. It's time to make a mark.

The criteria for evaluation will be:

1. How many players make a jump. I'd like to see major progress among at least 3 of the Galal, Miller, Cherry, Lamor, Giddens group, and 1-2 guys from the Scelfo, Matthews, Eitan, Figini ensemble.

2. The emergence of some sort of cohesiveness and deliberation on the team. I want to see both a much better organized offense that can execute an actual play, and a rotation strategy that sets and manages reasonable expectations for players.

I'm optimistic about this team's future, but we simply cannot allow ourselves to withhold scrutiny while succumbing to lowered expectations. The above criteria are tangible and real things we can start to look for and try to understand how Courtney is performing as a coach.

At his intro presser, Courtney said that he was looking to take this team to new height. Our criticism, so long as its fair and reasoned, is essential in enabling him to reach his own goal.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

I loved the prior staff. And they brought in some great kids. Great, great kids.

But the talent level of Bill's first two classes are far superior to Steve's classes.

While the 2010 class was very good, none of the other classes were anywhere near its level.

Bill has done a nice job layering talent on top of talent. We all need to let him get 3 good classes in the program together.

And after 4-5 years, we will know if this is a mediocre program or a rising program.

Right now, Bill is trying to win a team of reserves from the 2010 team.

Anonymous said...

Man, history is getting rewritten all over the place here.

CoachD arrived in Ithaca on 1-Sep-2000, the middle of the year. Donahue's teams won 12 games in the first two seasons. He finished in second place (8-6 in the league) in his fourth full year on the job. Why would an AD not have hope when his new coach rose all the way to second place from the Ivy cellar that quickly?

Recruiting. In his first full class, he recruited the Big Three that all coaches look for to drive their teams: Toppert, Taylor, and Vandenburg. With Barnes at the 1, ROY Lenny Collins at the 2, Toppert at the 3, Taylor at his natural 4, and a healthy Vandenburg at the 5, we're knocking heads with the P's in Donahue's second full year at the helm. We were potentially a kneecap away.

So, I also submit that not that much changed precipitously in 2006-07. It was Toppert, Taylor, Collins, Naeve, and Dow who played a big role in recruiting Adam Gore, who joined the latter three to then help Coach successfully pursue Wittman, Dale, Reeves, Tyler, and Jaques. Those same guys also laid the groundwork for the recruitment of Jeff Foote. 2006-07 was evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Lastly, let's just say you're making $225K/yr and having alot of fun and success doing things the right way. And, you know that you can keep doing that for awhile.
And someone offers you $900K/yr and a show and a shoe contract and a few other goodies to come coach your type of guy in the ACC for four years? And, to boot, you can move your family to one of the country's major metropolitan areas where education is valued and opportunities abound.

If you believe in yourself and what you have done, and what is good for your family, how can you turn that down? How?

Anonymous said...

Someone questioned why Donahue left to Boston College? Don't understand why anyone would question that. He definitely tried to leave for Penn a few years before that though, and was turned down... he definitely said it during an interview in 2010, and said it was probably deserved because he hadn't accomplished much at Cornell.

Anonymous said...

No I'm pretty sure Coach D did not make a jump until his 5th year, I was on campus at the time. The years before that were royally sucky.

Anonymous said...

Just read Anon's 9:01's comment in more detail. Appears to be counting arrival in September as not a full-season. erased all their historical data with their redesign, but if memory serves, depending on how you want to count it, Donahue definitely spent four ivy 14-game-tournaments in the lower divisions before finally breaking the upper division in the fifth year. So Donahue broke out in his 4.5th year or 5th year depending on how you count.

He then went a 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd -- but a distant 2nd and 3rd, as in 8-6-ish maybe 9-5 once, definitely not breaking double digit wins -- but they were finally now competitive & people began to peek; then Witt & co exploded for 14-0 as sophomores.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure in this day a coach would be given 4 years of languishing in the lower-division -- Agel basically got fired for it, Miller similarly got tossed. The Cornell AD definitely showed Donahue relative patience.

Anonymous said...

So, why are Penn and Princeton in the top tier of the league all of the time, never rebuilding?
Are the players that much better?
Winning traditions do not make excuses. Support Coach. Support the program.