Thursday, March 27, 2014

News and Notes: Thursday Edition

Below, news and notes for Thursday...

Above, the 1981-1982 Cornell Men's Basketball team, which included #31, Charley Brown.  His son, Kyle Brown, will be a freshman on the team next season and has used in the past the same jersey number as his father.
  •  Real Clear Sports credits Princeton-Georgetown of 1989 for saving automatic bids and writes, "To my knowledge, after 1989, the idea of eliminating the automatic bid to smaller conferences was never mentioned again. Ever. So the Lehighs and Coastal Carolinas of the world might owe a small debt to Princeton. So, too, do the Cornells and Harvards, I suppose, though they would loathe to admit it.  Here are the last four years of first-round NCAA games involving Ivy League teams: 2010: Cornell def. Temple, 78-65; 2011: Kentucky def. Princeton, 59-57; 2012: Vanderbilt def. Harvard, 79-70; 2013: Harvard def. New Mexico, 68-62; 2014: Harvard def. Cincinnati, 61-57. A bit different from the mid-1980s."


Anonymous said...

Bill courtney likes his wins like the division he plays in - 1 and only 1.

Anonymous said...

Have we reached out to Mr Donahue yet?

Anonymous said...

Courtney deserves a break. The team had so many injuries. LaMore, Bunce, Giddeons,Miller. Let's see how the team does next season with these kids healthy and back on the floor. Go Big Red.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:22- Are you Bill's mom? Or just late coming to the party? You realize we went 1-26 this season?

Runningpie said...

And since somehow injuries seem to be part of the problem since Courtney got here - because of his system or practices or who knows why, but there have been tons - it would be overly optimistic to assume there won't be yet more injuries next year.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Injuries/Personnel were always a problem/concern at Cornell.

2006-2007, No Gore.

2007-2008, Collin Robinson quit.

Check out the stats from 2008-2009. Big injury losses for Gore, Dale, Reeves, Tyler.

In 2009-2010, we lost starting PF Tyler for some time.

2011-2012 No Peck.

2013-2014 No Miller.

It happens...

Anonymous said...

CBB, and yet from 2006-10, the team was largely able to overcome injuries, including to critical players like Gore, Dale (who was never 100% during the 2009 season), and and Tyler. Courtney has shown no ability to at least somewhat limit the damage from, let alone overcome, injuries and the loss of personnel.

Anonymous said...

CBB - sound like you're making a point that injuries should not affect win record, since the Donahue champ teams also had injuries.

This leaves only one other variable - Courtney. Granted we may have have won the Ivy title but we would not be in the basement.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

The 2009 and 2010 teams had great seniors and tons of talent/depth.

Courtney was left (by Donahue) with bottom rung Division I talent in his Cornell classes of 2014 and 2013.

Great kids, good citizens, assets to the program as ambassadors of Cornell... but subpar basketball players.

Anonymous said...

CBB, I've talked to a half dozen college coaches who watched Cornell play over the past two years. Those coaches threw up in their mouths watching what Cornell did on offense and defense, and couldn't believe how out of control and dumb Cornell played as a team. And you don't think that is a reflection of the coach? If you think that's due to a lack of talent, you know nothing about the game at all.

And then, to defend your unabashed, indefensible support of BC, you take cheap shots at the talent of the kids who were put in an impossible situation knowing there is no way to compare how they could have performed playing for a different coach? Give me a break.

Poor coaching matters and causes talented kids who love the school to throw up their hands and transfer. Just watch the NCAA tournament and then tell me Cornell was well coached the past 2 years.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

I've been critical of Bill all over the internet. But the Cornell seniors of classes of 13 and 14 (as a group) are not good basketball players (by Division I standards). Period.

The classes of 2013 and 2014 were not highly recruited in high school for a reason. They were recruited mostly by D-II, D-III and NAIA for a reason. And they were ineffective at Cornell for a reason.

Shonn Miller, Nolan Cressler, Chris Wroblewski all played for Bill Courtney. They all had brilliant careers for Bill Courtney.

Bill Courtney did not make the 13 and 14 seniors bad, just like he did not make the above guys great.

The players are what they are.

And the 13s and 14s led Cornell into a historically terrible losing streak. It is on them.

Bill can facilitate and help, but the player on the floor lose games by 30 points. Not Bill.

Anonymous said...

Spoken like someone who never played the game.

Ironically, Bill's best record so far was 2012-13 when both classes you criticize were juniors and seniors on the roster.

80%+ Courtney recruits on the roster last year wasnt enough for the team to be Courtney's team, so let's see how it goes next year with 100% Courtney recruits.

Meanwhile, Nolan, who would have loved to play for Donahue, leaves behind his "brilliant career" and overall Cornell record of 15-44, and leaves a school and teammates he loves because Andy Noel refused to hear him.

But that's not on Bill.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

Bill's best record was 2012-2013 because he had Shonn Miller as a 1st Team All Ivy player.

When Shonn went down, the team never won again.

Steve Donahue was part of the problem. His last two recruiting classes at Cornell (the seniors of '13 and '14) were not good. They really hurt Cornell.

When he arrived at Boston College, he had one good NIT season with Reggie Jackson (an Al Skinner recruit). The next 3 years were progressively worse because he struggled to recruit.

So, as good as a coach you think Steve Donahue is.... he could not win at Boston College because he did not have talent. He could not recruit talent. He could not win games from the sidelines. You need talent to win.

And Bill Courtney is losing for similar reasons. He did not have talent in his upperclassmen (Donahue recruits).

In 2013-2014, BY FAR the best player on the team was a sophomore: Nolan. A Bill Courtney recruit.

In 2012-2013, BY FAR the best player on the team team was a sophomore: Shonn. A Bill Courtney recruit.

Bill has not had a strong senior class since he arrived. His best were his first 2 years when he had Chris W. and Adam Wire. Since then, it has been all down hill with the remaining Donahue classes.

Better times ahead as the team improves the talent base.

And Nolan left because the team was losing and he lacked patience to wait. If the team won 20 games, he's be in Ithaca for the rest of his career.

It is not Bill's fault that he hasn't had enough talent to surround Nolan. The last two upper classes were not good enough to carry this team forward. Nolan shouldered too much and the team was just terrible.

Anonymous said...

CBB: I'm not going to sit here and argue that Donahue's final two recruiting classes are top Ivy classes, but I don't like you saying they're not good Ivy players because of where their other offers came from

"The classes of 2013 and 2014 were not highly recruited in high school for a reason. They were recruited mostly by D-II, D-III and NAIA for a reason."

What other schools recruited Jeff Foote? What other schools recruited Louis Dale?

I'm not going to go back and do all the research, but I can imagine guys like Geoff Reeves, Alex Tyler, Jon Jaques weren't overflowing with major offers.

These guys were COACHED UP.

Who knows, maybe Donahue and staff saw something in these kids and given time in the system and program could have developed into something. Don't dismiss just because the kid didn't have major D-1 offers. That's just lazy analysis.

The Cornell Basketball Blog said...

PLEASE. Louis Dale and Ryan Wittman EXPLODED onto the scene from their first game at Northwestern (a Cornell victory). These guys were under-recruited studs. They were not "coached" up. They were steals. (Wittman was a finalist for Mr. Basketball in Minnesota)

Foote came from St. Bonaventure. He wasn't a scholarship player, but he was on an A-10 team. And he was very good his sophomore year and was a big reason why we competed well at Duke in 2008.

Don't even dare compare the last two senior classes to the 2010 seniors.

Again, nobody is saying anything about these 2013/2014 kids personally.

They are great ambassadors of Cornell, they did everything that was asked of them, they showed tremendous poise over 4 years. But they are not good Ivy League basketball players.

They were 2-26 and the coach can't be blamed for a team losing 26 games. The guys on the floor lost 26 games. Hell, if they had talent, by accident they would win 5 games.

Anonymous said...

First of all, Ryan Wittman was not mentioned in the comment. If you want to say Louis Dale was under recruited, fine. But Jeff Foote... Want to talk about someone who was coached up, there he is! Perfect example. Coached up in the weight room AND on the court. Really credit the staff for his development.

You also did not mention Jacques, Tyler, Reeves. These guys came in with a similar profile to Tarwater, Scelfo, etc and were coached up.

Yes, they had a ton of talent around them, but before you trash Donahue for these kids (which you have), remember they didn't have four years with him. Not saying they would have been studs, but look at Jaques. Sat on the bench for three years, learned the system, and became a pretty darn good player. Coaching.... Coaching.

Not saying Bill can't do it, but the sign of a good coach is someone who can get the most out of a kid....we saw that from Donahue, just haven't seen it from Courtney yet. Hopefully we will.

Anonymous said...

CBB has been very clear about his feelings about the classes of 2013 and 2014. He has said the program "has been choking on" their lack of talent for the past two years, so he really is putting this almost entirely on them. There is no point debating it any further.

I do hope in the years to come that the guys from the 2013 and 2014 classes store these comments in their memory banks and keep them stored there for a long time.

Anonymous said...

I guess you only post the comments you want!
You are 100% wrong on blaming any of these players for the losses!!! It starts at the top!!!
Guess what, when your team is doing well you can recruit good players. Go back and read what you wrote about these 2 classes that you seem to be trashing!!

Anonymous said...

What I don't think the bloggers who are calling for BC to be let go realize is that now ALL of the recruits who are left were recruited by BC.

If he is let go, what will the ramifications be? Ask yourselves, if BC is fired, are you willing to give up Shonn Miller for Nolan Cressler and this is not a knock on either player.

I can't imagine that Shonn Miller would stay if BC is gone. I could also see at least four other players leaving the roster.